Curse

Tarkin · May 07, 2008, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

i am the op. lol

I forgive you... lol... my bad...

Arduin · May 07, 2008, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Throw in an [[Ebon Vanguard Assassin] to the suffer the initial damage. [[Pain Inverter] on the Damage Dealers (most of the time ele's), [[Broad Head Arrow] on the Monks or Rits, spread with [[Epidemic]. [[Throw Dirt] on the melee's closing in, spread with Epidemic. [[Screaming Shot] on a balled up mob, Disease them with [[Signet of Infection]. Epidemic...

...and then just wait untill the mob is killed by my minions/SF-ele's.

That's basically how I vanquish/complete missions/play this game.

Productivity · May 07, 2008, 02:59 PM // 14:59

I just bring enough damage that all I have to do is aggro them and then stuff starts to die.

Ctb · May 07, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

The interrupt ranger attacks the healer, the rest on the most dangerous one. Locking heroes on a foe FTW. This tactic even works in PUGs

I used to do that, but then I realized that things in PvE die so quickly most of the time that if you just blow the everloving crap out of a single target you can pretty quickly wipe out 2 or 3 key enemies and then just mop the rest up like leftovers. This seems to be especially true in factions.

Tactics are overrated. Just go ballistic :P

Quote:

Pretty sure my post makes this discussion irrelevant. There is AoE for a reason. Blow them all up at once...

Feel free to stop posting in it then. We won't miss your oh-so-witty and irreverent commentary.

miskav · May 07, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

1) Anything that'll insta wipe your party/tank
2) Anything that'll overload your monks or kill them
3) Their healers
4) Their annoyers
5) Their moderate damagers
6) Rest.

Dylananimus · May 07, 2008, 03:29 PM // 15:29

In general (i.e. not in all cases) I'll go for the Rit healer over the Monk healer in a group. After that - unless I notice their healer is just making it take longer and therefore being annoying - I target whatever is closest, and then the melee attackers.

If there's a boss in the group, I'll ignore it if it's melee, or pretty much anything else (unless I know it's a powerful damage dealing Rit, or something that's going to piss me off by making me slow, or blind, or...you get the idea) but kill it first if it's an Ele.

These days it's so easy to stroll through massive groups with no problem that targeting has become less of an issue as it used to be. It's a shame really...but I guess that's why we now have hard mode, to make the encounters just that little bit more difficult when faced with multiple healers, etc.

edwinna elbert · May 07, 2008, 04:54 PM // 16:54

1. Anything massively dangerous (HM Ele bosses for example)
2. Anything with hard res (I'm can't be bothered killing everything twice)
3. Anything stopping other enemies from dying (I've encountered two single non-boss monks that can do this: Duncan's Dwarves)
4. Everything else.

Painbringer · May 07, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

I attack whoever is closer besides the boss. Stay away from that Silver Armor Boss until the end. AOE will nip at him and burning etc.. then he is usually pretty easy to kill Sometimes dead before i finish the group.

H/hench

For general play Is end hench/heros after Front lines and I hit (mesmer usually) the casters of my chioce

MithranArkanere · May 07, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

1. Kill anything.
2. Raise a Flesh Golem
3. Attack whatever the Flesh Golem attacks.

May sound silly, but it's not. At least for me, those things target exactly what must be targeted.

Darkobra · May 07, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Well the monks in Raisu are weak healers, even in hard mode. But those elementals only get stronger. I always take those down first.

As for melee, I rely on how bad the monks are to shut down the assassins and warriors.

Red Sonya · May 07, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

I always kill the monk first then the rit then the other casters and melee last. With my dual shatterstone build they are a cloud of nothingness in just a few seconds. As always you kill the healers first, you aggrivate the others while killing the healers forcing the healer AI to waste energy healing them when it should be constantly healing itself. The AI is dumb so exploit it and kill healers first.

Striken7 · May 07, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

If there are two Monks/Rits, I always kill one first because trying to outdamage two healers without pressuring them directly can take way too long considering their near limitless energy, increased cast speed, shortened recharge times, and increased health levels.

Once it's down to only one healer, or if there ever only was one, focus on the main threat. Against Charr, this would be Dominators. Against Stone Summit, its usually the Herders. Against the Undead, I'll pick off the Wizards first. You can (or should be able to) easily outdamage a single healer to knock out these priority targets.

Once the main threats are down, clean up any remaining backline they have (healers, casters), move onto to midline (rangers, paragons), then finish off any frontline who haven't already been killed from hexes/collateral damage (warriors, dervs, assassins).

Zahr Dalsk · May 07, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

I play a Paragon, so I can laugh at any feeble attempts at hurting the party they make. I kill whatever their most important support is. Actually, that's my approach in PvP as well. Take out the support and the opposition collapses.

Chthon · May 07, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

I think what OP is searching for is the optimal principle behind prioritizing targets, now that he's realized that "kill the healer first" isn't always the best plan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Greatest inhibition to victory first.

This is half of it. The other half is "target with the lowest opportunity cost first." (The "opportunity cost" of killing a particular monster is the sum of the damage/heals/hexes/rezzes that come from other monsters you could have killed instead during the time period while you were killing your target.)

In sum, the principle looks like "Kill whatever eliminates the largest inhibition to victory at the lowest opportunity cost."

(How is that different from simply killing the greatest inhibition to victory first? Well, let's take an example: When fighting the Remnant of Antiquities and the one Frozen Elemental next to him, which one do you kill first? The Frozen Elemental. Why? Clearly the Remnant is a much bigger obstacle to victory. But killing the Remnant is going to take a long-ass time, during which that little Frozen Elemental would get to deal thousands of damage if left alive. The cost of killing the Remnant first, measured in terms of what the unchecked Frozen elemental is going to do to you while you kill the Remnant, is very high. Conversely, the cost of killing the Frozen Elemental first is going to be only one or two casts from the Remnant (or zero, if you assign a single interrupter to the Remnant while killing the Elemental).)

For the most part, prioritizing targets is about making accurate judgments about how big a threat and how fast a kill each monster is going to be. A few rules of thumb about what might be a high priority target: (1) High-damage monsters can be a threat to your survival, which tends to make them a large threat to victory. (2) The threat posed by a rezzer is effectively equal to its own threat, plus the threat of whatever it can rez. (3) Effective healers/protectors raise the cost of killing anything as long as they're alive. It's usually better to kill them first than take a whole bunch of fire as you drag through several slower kills because you didn't kill them first. (4) "Glass cannons" are higher-than-average-priority targets almost by definition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

1. Kill anything.
2. Raise a Flesh Golem
3. Attack whatever the Flesh Golem attacks.

May sound silly, but it's not. At least for me, those things target exactly what must be targeted.

That's because their preference for low-AL, low-HP, close-proximity targets does a very good job of picking the target with the lowest opportunity cost to kill. As long as there's nothing around with an unusually high threat level, and no surprises with healing or blocking or other skills that make that yummy-looking low-AL, low-HP, close-proximity target harder to kill than the golem thinks it is, the golem is probably right.

HawkofStorms · May 08, 2008, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Actually this is a very valid thread (don't troll, claiming how your build is so leet it requires no thought/strategy).

There are certain areas where the monk isn't the first one who should be targetted. Mostly, eles are a big threat. Or when running certain builds like a bonder, stuff that strips enchants are.

My opinions
Flameshielders and then dominators (res chant) and then prophets for charr areas
The dervishes and then the Water eles in Realm of Torment first
The necros in Naphui Quarter first (well of blood, grenths balance, enchantment removal, and armor ignoring life steal, oh my)
Mursatt - Monks first
Hell's Precipice- Fire Sparks

Shayne Hawke · May 08, 2008, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Blow up Koosun first.
The monk and rit Shiro'ken are terribad healers you can laugh at.

If you're really pro, you can blow up everything at once with physicals + MoP + Splinter.

This. Your only worry with the Ritualists are some lamely annoying resurrection skills. They'd be second on my list. Monks I don't even take seriously, and I sometimes leave them as the last to kill.

StormDragonZ · May 08, 2008, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Ritaulists, Monks and Mesmers first.
Warriors and Assassins second.
Everything else comes third.

strcpy · May 08, 2008, 06:52 AM // 06:52

If Anything is killing you, target it. If nothing is killing you spread the love around. If at any time there is anything that prevents you from killing your current target, kill it first. Re-evaluate after each target is killed.

The only exception is that a critter with a hard rez falls into the "prevents killing" category but it doesn't override the "killing you" priority.

In this case there was something killing you badly - Ele bosses in Factions are a nightmare (double damage and halfing times) and none of the other professions are preventing you from killing it. Had there maybe been two monks there you may have been hard pressed to kill the boss and had to kill one of the monks. Once it is dead there isn't really anything there that can kill you or keep things alive therefore I let the hench/team pick their targets and wail on it (actually I still call targets but I don't pay much attention to what they are other than I choose enemies that are clumped up for any AoE damage I am doing).

I haven't found a time when this hasn't produced the correct target priority. The rest is positioning and knowing if there are any environmental affects to take advantage of.

Dark Kal · May 08, 2008, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by miskav

1) Anything that'll insta wipe your party/tank
2) Anything that'll overload your monks or kill them
3) Their healers
4) Their annoyers
5) Their moderate damagers
6) Rest.

This seems to be the most usefull advice. Different enemies have different builds so it's impossible to give a standard order to optimally kill a group. It depends heavily on how good their healers are, how many of them there are, and whether they have a ress skill or not. Take out extreme damage dealers first unless they have strong health support, if they have strong health support than take out those first. Also take out ressers and minion masters out as fast as you can after the extreme damage dealers and healers.

arcanemacabre · May 08, 2008, 07:32 AM // 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

In sum, the principle looks like "Kill whatever eliminates the largest inhibition to victory at the lowest opportunity cost."

Totally agree; excellent post, Chthon.

Reminds me of when I go up against that group of Ceratadons with "Joffs the Mitigator," the ele boss with Shockwave. You take out the other two before you go after him, and you will survive much better.

Of course, Pain Inverter helps...